Curse

Amy Awien · Dec 25, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

At least two pages of someone arguing a point without giving CONCRETE evidence, just spamming and quoting. Amy should run for president.

I am spamming? A few pages ago I stated my opinion and my reasoning behind it. Apparently it was an opinion that went against the currently ruling dogmas and since then there's been a whole parade of almost funny but really just meaningless stereotypes, comments and insults, similar to yours. And with all of these posts, only a few have added adding anything meaningful or gave a normal reaction. Unfortunately, whenever the thread is taking a normal direction, someone like you pops up to derail it.

This thread could have been back on a more useful direction 2, even 3, pages ago if it hadn't been for people like you jumping without anything substantial but just to jump in. Ultimately it is you, the Clarissa F's who have been spamming.

horseradish · Dec 25, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

If you're so adamantly frustrated with the people who disagree with you on this thread, then all you have to do is ignore them. Not everyone is going to understand your opinion.

What ever happened to argumentation and polite debates? Bickering about the same topic over and over and over benefits no one, and abolishes the notion of this thread instead.

If this is to continue, then I ask that this thread be closed.

Targuil · Dec 26, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Okay here's one thing that you might be good to know: Enemies in HM hit HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. You're ranger, but that doesn't save you from HM physical bosses who could one shot you. I was ele and charr boss hit me over nine thousanddd! (550). I didn't have full hp so i died. And i hope you don't think same way with your heros. If you ever want to survive some bad ass eles in HM, you're gonna need health. You'll love when boss's [skill]deep freeze[/skill] for example hits your team. Yea, I know, I love one hit wonders too...
[skill]protective spirit[/skill] Is not saving your dirty team each time.
If you really think that 10 damage or 1 more regen to troll is worth a wipe, I wish good luck to you.

Almost forgot. Most funniest part is DP. With that hp, 60% is too much for ya. Like to prot spirit entire group before agro? It won't help against degen or life steal. + Many areas have ench removes that aren't nice to protted below 200 hp guy.

Amy Awien · Dec 26, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

If you're so adamantly frustrated with the people who disagree with you on this thread, then all you have to do is ignore them. Not everyone is going to understand your opinion.

I am not frustrated with people disagreeing, but some just call my posts spam, or imply that I would not have any experience - and thus my arguments wouldn't hold. And some distort matters by claiming it's me who is frustrated.

Quote:

What ever happened to argumentation and polite debates? Bickering about the same topic over and over and over benefits no one, and abolishes the notion of this thread instead.

I've been wondering about that too and I am wondering about how you complain about this and the bickering and in the same post you bicker some more. You could also have added a post something about the topic of this thread (although the original poster is long gone), or the hp issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targuil

Okay here's one thing that you might be good to know: Enemies in HM hit HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

Yes, they do hit hard, if you feel you need 600 HP then go for it. I don't think the OP needs all that much as his char just reached lvl 20, but if you are more comfy with it, I will not stop you.

Llint · Dec 26, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

14 Expertise is never useful, 13 is a breakpoint for 5E skills, 12 for 10E skills. One of those will do.

Why we should stop arguing.

Need to play more ranger, go!

Best PvP builds are Crip shot and Magebane.

Full Metal X · Dec 26, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Hai guies!!! Eye hERd hP is gooooooooood.

natural sugar · Dec 26, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Anything I guess and I don't care to compile a list. Health is not a priority in setup and I didn't notice difficulties arising from 'low' health.

If you want to make your claims seem more credible it wouldn't hurt to take a minute and list just a FEW elite areas/HM dungeons/vanquish runs that you've been able to successfully complete, along with some mention of your team build. You can go on arguing pointlessly or defend your stance by simply posting the above information.

Until you can do that, you honestly shouldn't be surprised at why people are arguing that higher health is more advantageous than the effects of an addition 1-2 atttribute points.

Lhim · Dec 26, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Why we should stop arguing.

Need to play more ranger, go!

Best PvP builds are Crip shot and Magebane.

I think you should re-read this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural sugar

along with some mention of your team build.

Exactly. Health is not meaningless like stated before. HOWEVER, it's certainly not high on the priority list to be succesful. Your own build, builds of teammembers, team balance, overall combat strategy are more important than health in my opninion. But some have stated that lower health is automatic fail, and that's just a bit simplistic. Sure, it will make you more vulnerable, but it's not an automatic fail.

moriz · Dec 26, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

measuring something on whether if it is "successful" is a bad concept. i can be successful with 1 hp and no skills, doing nothing but directing my hero/hench team through the game. is it successful? yes. is it good? no.

similarly, purposely lowering your hp to gain some marginal increases in efficiency is "successful", but is the 100ish hp per character you are giving up really worth the 2-3 extra damage, or 3-5 extra healing, or 3-4 seconds of extra spell effect really worth it? for the most part, that has been proven to be not worth it. as such, purposely lowering your hp for tiny gains is "successful", but bad.

lennymon · Dec 26, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I've found that in hard mode (which by the way seems irrelevant to the OP's questions) health does make a difference. When H/Hing the squishies don't die as fast or accumulate DP as badly when I have a good setup and pull cleanly. A good setup which includes the skills and health necessary to allow me to survive the brunt of the initial assault. This buys the team time to thin the enemy ranks. I'll grant that a different playstyle or playing with other real people the health would be far less of an issue though. I was vqing in Gwen last night after my family feast and ended up basically hovering at 60dp for the last hour because I rushed one pull. I ended up completing the area with low health and let me tell you it is in no way an advantage.

horseradish · Dec 26, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Amy, I was not bickering. I was simply stating an observation, and I find it hypocritical that you complain about others distorting your posts, while you've done the same for mine. I never meant to attack you in my earlier post or this one.

The reason why I did not post anything pertaining to the OP's question is because the argument has become askew with the debate about health. You aren't a solution to that either.

Amy, you are only a minority in this matter. People are bound to be rude to you, and i understand that you are frustrated with that. However, and I speak to everyone when I say this, carrying on in these useless thread pages is fruitless.

This is my last post in this thread. You may argue as you have, or you can just leave.

It is only a game.

tekDragon · Dec 27, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

LOL... I completed legendary master of the north last week. My ranger has I think 456 hp, not sure how the breakdown adds up.

There are plenty of HM dungeons that you can HnH with low-ish HP like that. to name a few... Oola's lab, Arachni's Haunt, Frostmaw, Darkmire... the list goes on.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 27, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

You can do everything with 135 hp. I've done a few dungeons when feeling lazy on my monk and not feeling like finding wherever I put his non-55 armor. Doesn't mean it was a good idea though, even if the prots were a little better than usual. <_<

More hp is always a good thing, especially if you don't need to use majors to hit a breakpoint (for rangers, Expertise breakpoint mainly).

tekDragon · Dec 27, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I'd tend to agree... and so would most people. But considering how easy some of those turned out being, I wouldnt say it was a *bad* idea either.

As far as HP vs. attributes, It's pretty much impossible to get anyone to change their minds as demonstrated by our friends in this thread. What I'm more interested in is figuring out the armour to HP ratio... something along the lines of. At a base of 70AL and 480hp you die form x Attack in so many hits, with +10 armor it takes this many fewer hits, with +20hp it takes this many fewer hits....

I'm sure I could find that in some other forums but I havent stumbled across it yet.

Epinephrine · Dec 27, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I'm going to sit the fence on the health debate. While I agree that more health is good, and provides a buffer against death, I'll say that I got legendary guardian with my ranger using a superior rune and generally a pair of minors in every one of my builds. Yes, you have more health without the superior, but it's not always needed; in fact, my heroes had superior runes too, and I did it before the piles of broken sunspear/EoTN PvE skills arrived to make life easy.

That said, more recently I've been playing without the superior runes, and I find it generally doesn't affect things too much in terms of damage, but does help staying alive. A few builds I still use a superior for, as I want the expertise breakpoint and enough other points to invest. It's not wrong to use a superior rune, but it is a tradeoff that one should think about. Amy says she has thought about it, good enough for me.

lennymon · Dec 27, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Oh, I use a sup rune generally as well... but I'll swap to a minor expertise headset if I get 'significant' dp.

Amy Awien · Dec 27, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekDragon

I... What I'm more interested in is figuring out the armour to HP ratio... something along the lines of. At a base of 70AL and 480hp you die form x Attack in so many hits, with +10 armor it takes this many fewer hits, with +20hp it takes this many fewer hits....

Damage depends on AL as a power of two, basically for this calculation the ratio of effect on damage would be 2^((AL1-AL0)/40) or with 10AL difference in armor you'd receive 2^(-10/40) = .84 of the damage and it would take 1.19 as many hits before your health runs out.

If, for instance, a hit does 20 HP damage at 70 AL, it will do 16.8 HP damage at 80AL. When at 70 AL it takes 24 of these hits, at 80AL it is 28.5 hits. With a +20 HP mod at 70 AL it would take 25 hits

Omar_Sharif · Jan 03, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

aaaa guyz 6pages of talking about hp. Im having 495hp which is imho enough to survive nm/hm having more is also nice but I think i depend on your favourite playstyle.